Bill & Lorena: Most Shocking Sex Ever or Just Another Sunday on True Blood?

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Last night’s episode of True Blood ended with the much-hyped “most shocking sex scene ever shown on TV.” The Interwebz are certainly abuzz with commentary, but was it truly the most shocking sex scene on TV? Was it even the most shocking sex scene on True Blood?

Vampire Hate Sex: After Bill is forced to change allegiance from Sophie-Ann and Louisiana to Russell and Mississippi in order to protect Sookie, Lorena can’t leave well enough alone and goes to his room to gloat. And possibly under the misguided assumption that since Bill has more or less renounced Sookie, he’s ready to be Lorena’s TRUE LOVE 4-EVAR! Instead, Bill is in pain, having given up happiness in order to protect the woman he loves, clinging to his humanity by joining forces with the inhumane. As Lorena provokes, Bill’s control slips and he attacks her again.

I was pleased to see that Bill throwing the candle at Lorena at the end of last week’s episode was in fact real, not Bill’s wishful thinking. Bill turning on his maker so violently and so suddenly was a huge step for him as we’ve seen what kind of control makers have over their progeny. Watching him struggle against Lorena’s pull when she cornered him in the bedroom was heartbreaking. His agony when the struggle turned sexual even more so. Spurred on by Lorena, the vampire hate sex was disturbing, yes. Twisting her head 180 degrees during intercourse? Definitely creepy. Most shocking sex scene on TV ever? Not for this viewer.

Stephen Moyer and Mariana Klaveno have sex in a bloody bed on True Blood in season 2

Bill, Lorena & A Bloody Bed: In my book, that wasn’t even the most shocking sex scene on True Blood. Bill & Lorena’s Season 2 carnal romp on a blood-soaked bed, with a drained corpse lying next to them, was both shocking and gruesome. My aversion to blood is fairly well documented here, along with plenty of self-deprecating comments about how I can be a fan of a show about vampires if the blood bothers me. Having sex in pools of blood, I would hope, is shocking even if the red stuff doesn’t bother you as much as it does me. Perhaps the shock factor last season was increased because we had no warning what was coming. We’re enjoying a flashback with Bill & Lorena. We learn that Bill is a fine pianist. We know the couple at the hotel are doomed but expect a few bites, maybe a neck crack. The action progresses thusly, then suddenly we’re watching two vampires filled with bloodlust writhing on a bed. I was stunned.

Runners Up for “Watercooler” True Blood Sex Scenes: the vampire and Jason’s sex buddy in the pilot; Sookie and Bill in the graveyard in season 1; Eggs and Tara’s violent, Maryann-induced encounter in season 2; Eric and Yvetta’s 6-hour marathon in the season 3 premiere

Why This Wasn’t Shocking: This time, I knew something “shocking” was coming in episode 3. I knew who it involved thanks to various interviews (note: just because you only give us a tiny clue in your interview, doesn’t mean the clue someone else drops in their interview will go unnoticed, folks). I knew it was supposed to be a watercooler moment. By the time we FINALLY got there last night, I was already worn out from anticipation and from the rest of a stuffed-to-the-gills episode. It wasn’t out of character for either Bill (torn between rage and honor) or Lorena (we already knew she was off-kilter), which really is a compliment to the writers, but it’s also a reason why it wasn’t all that shocking. In the end, what was hyped as another True Blood-induced minor heart attack, was more of a “WTF? That was weird” moment.

Why It Should Have Been Shocking: Looking at it from the other side, I understand why all involved were calling the scene “something that will be talked about for 20 years.” First, it was hate sex. I don’t recall ever seeing that depicted on TV before. Revenge sex, pity sex, makeup sex, relief sex…sure, in abundance. But not hate sex. Second, it was near rape, although it’s hard to tell who was violating whom in this case. Between rage and manipulation, the lines quickly blurred. Third, it was rough sex. Rough sex to the point of one person’s head being twisted 180 degrees, which leads us to probably the most disturbing part of the whole scene: we were reminded that these are dead people. We were watching two dead people have sex. It’s easy to forget that vampires are dead, even if we’re told that repeatedly. When the vampires are so attractive, when they walk and talk and emote and brood, the fact that they’re dead slips to the back of your mind. But here? Here we got a vivid reminder.

What We Should Be Discussing: Franklin Mott and Tara. Now that was sinister. Manipulation that promises to only get more twisted. Rape under the guise of glamoring. Why aren’t we talking about this instead?

Fan of the Southern Vampire Mysteries since 2001, and co-admin of since 2008. Team Sookie!


  1. joke

    June 28, 2010 at 1:04 pm

    I thought Lorena saying she loved bill after he had basically broke her neck and bill screaming aferward quite disturbing! The sex itself- not so much, like you said i saw it coming 🙁

  2. Katharine

    June 28, 2010 at 1:33 pm

    Absolutely right about Franklin. I half-wondered if he’d glamored the rednecks that were baiting Tara into doing just that.

  3. Jax

    June 28, 2010 at 2:18 pm

    Oh thank goodness I’m not the only one who thought this was way over-hyped. It was kind of like expecting to see king kong and winding up to see curious george. Was it rough and mean and full of hate… yup. But I think the real drama wasn’t in Bill twisting Lorena’s neck around – but in the fact that he was so full of hatred that he finally lost control.

  4. TrulyInMyBlood

    June 28, 2010 at 2:23 pm

    OMG, this was one of the most shocking and disturbing tv scenes I have seen on True Blood, if ever on any show. It had me cringing so bad!

    Dang Bill! Bill really, really, really hates Lorena. Last week’s episode he threw fire at her, trying to burn her down to ashes. And what I can’t understand is why does she keep coming back. After he had tried to burn me to smithereens, I would have been long gone.

    WOW! But hey, True Blood is the best!

  5. May

    June 28, 2010 at 3:03 pm

    Franklin seriously disturbs me. I am not ready to see Tara go into yet another freakazoid relationship!!

    • Mel

      June 29, 2010 at 6:48 am

      I disagree. He’s not traditionally handsome, but I think James Frain is hot.

  6. Rainy

    June 28, 2010 at 3:29 pm

    I still say that it would have been more shocking if Lorena was on fire. Their entire relationship is this passionate hatefest, and the neck twist was kinda lackluster.

    The Franklin/Tara hookup was more disturbing to me. It seems like Franklin really has a talent for glamoring.

  7. kourtney

    June 28, 2010 at 3:38 pm

    It was pretty crazy, but I’m sure that wont be the most shocking thing we see this season we still have 9 episodes to go anything can happen. And whats up with having to wait 2 weeks haven’t we waited long enough, I was so mad I actully growled lol.

    • Froggy

      June 30, 2010 at 6:43 pm

      At least you didn’t yell at the tv like I did. My hubby thought I’d lost my mind. When he found out why I was pissed, he spent the better part of 15 mins laughing at me.

  8. Alisha

    June 28, 2010 at 3:44 pm

    I actually thought the scene was pretty shocking. All other sex scenes in this entire series up to date had nothing on this. The neck twisting … yeah, that was gross, and creepy, and the fact that her head was broken, and blood was pouring out of her mouth, and she was still saying she loved him, was horrific. I think the most disturbing was Bills scream at the end, where he is pulling hair out of his head. The hate, rage, and desperation was very sad. He loses control. Finally.

    And I don’t think Franklin glamors Tara into bed. Tara didn’t seem upset after having sex with him until he was curious as to why she wanted to kill the rednecks. She was perfectly fine with a one night stand where they didn’t know or want to know each other. Did I miss something? Why is everyone assuming he glamored her into sex? I do know he glamored her to invite him in, but as to the sex bit, I am lost.

    • Mel

      June 28, 2010 at 3:54 pm

      The assumption is that he went to see Tara in order to have sex. She wouldn’t let him in, he glamored her into inviting him in and, presumably, into more sex. We don’t know for sure how he got her into bed at the motel, but she did seem rather dazed, and her begging him to bite her was not at all like the Tara we saw just a couple of days before. (See: minisode with Tara and Sookie fighting over Sookie’s relationship with Bill)

      BTW, the blood coming out of Lorena’s mouth, wasn’t that from biting Bill? I did find his screams heartbreaking. Poor guy.

      • Miranda

        June 28, 2010 at 10:17 pm

        I think you should keep in mind that Tara post-Eggs’ death is different than the one we saw in that minisode. Before she was afraid of vamps because she valued life, but afterwards she was ready to kill herself. After sinking so low I think it’s believable that she’d allow him to bite her. I think she hated life enough to throw away her moral values.

        • Mel

          June 29, 2010 at 6:47 am

          Excellent point, Miranda. I hadn’t thought about her suicidal thoughts in direct correlation to her change in attitude toward vampires.

  9. druwhisper

    June 28, 2010 at 4:31 pm

    Ugh the scene with Lorena was gross to me- it felt to mee like a rape scene gone even more wrong. The scene with Tara was also awful- she looked lke she was having a seizure. Honestly- I miss the first seasons aversion to sex scenes being a little less with the ick factor. I also miss character development, I miss Sookie being this independent and interesting thing with potential powers- now she is just a night in shining armour off to save Bill (who I feel is being cast in the most negative light possible in order to make his character less likable and any future transgressions from Sookie more acceptable.) Let’s just say after this episode I don’t want to see Bill with Sookie anymore- poor brooding shmo, he just seems so much more lost than he did initially on the show. Also I thought the editing was awful- the jumps from character p.o.v. scene to scene felt disjointed, and I too am bored with Sam’s storyline- he’s a great character and I’d like to see him have a littlel less shock factor and a little more kind time- after Maryanne he deserves something kinder

    • mary

      June 28, 2010 at 7:10 pm

      to druwhisper: I totally agree with every word you have said, it started out great now it’s sloopy, Jason and Sookie have lost there spark, I was looking for something more magical from them, I’ m sick of Sam’s weaknesses, and yes it does appear the writer is hoping to keep it’s viewers with the shock value, be it as it may, alone

      • Froggy

        June 30, 2010 at 6:48 pm

        Actually, it stands to reason that they would become more hardened, after having been exposed to vpires maenads and shifters. In the books sookie looses sone of the sweet carefree nature as she encounters new creatures and dilemmas. I think in that respect AB tried to keep that progression the same.

    • Sheamia

      June 28, 2010 at 9:41 pm

      I so totally agree with you! Sam is becoming boring & his family just looks like a bunch of leaches that are just gonna hurt him even more. The Franklin guy (UGLY GUY) seriously why in the world did they pick such an awful looking man ewwww. Well him & Tara weird just weird. I want to see more development in Sookie’s power’s too see what she & her borther actually are & have the potential to be & since I have read all the books I would like to start seeing more of her & Eric develop into the relationship that they eventually are suppose to have.

      So far the show is awesome but there are a few things that have me puzzled?

    • Solara

      June 28, 2010 at 11:01 pm

      I agree..honestly TV needs to stop doing this- it lightens the true severity of rape. Most people i know were laughing at this scene.

      • lisa

        June 29, 2010 at 4:17 am

        Its not rape when that is what Lorena wanted. When Bill attacks her she tells him to make love to her.

        • Rory

          June 29, 2010 at 6:24 pm

          It would be impossible for Bill to rape Lorena, she has a lot more power than he does.

        • Sci-fi Tea Party

          June 29, 2010 at 10:00 pm

          Bill was trying to hurt, humiliate, and domintate Lorena. If he could have he would have killed her. That says rape to me.

          I don`t know what disturbed me more:
          Bill`s sheer hate and rage
          Lorena`s “Oh Yah Baby“

          • Rory

            June 30, 2010 at 9:40 am

            It’s not rape, when at anytime, Lorena could have thrown Bill off of her or stopped it. You can’t rape the willing.

          • Sci-fi Tea Party

            June 30, 2010 at 3:23 pm

            OK Rory
            Lorena wanted an emotional response from Bill, and that’s what she got. It reminded me of a kid acting out because any attention is better than no attention.
            But, from Bill’s point of view, he wanted to inflict as much pain as possible and be in control of her. So he was trying to rape her but she was manipulating him

  10. Teresa

    June 28, 2010 at 6:15 pm

    WELL!! I have just found this website, and am waiting for Wednesday night here in New Zealand to see the 1st episode of series three…….I can see after reading these comments that I’m in for a GREAT start of the season!!! Go Vamps and creatures……….

  11. Peter

    June 28, 2010 at 6:55 pm

    “her begging him to bite her was not at all like the Tara we saw just a couple of days before.

    (See: minisode with Tara and Sookie fighting over Sookie’s relationship with Bill)”

    *correct me because I’m sure I’m wrong: weren’t those mini-episodes about the last season?

    And I’m sure he could have glamored her, but it was more my thinking the first time around that it was “sadness sex” if you could call it that and not “relief sex” or rebound sex to get over your ex dying?

    • Mel

      June 28, 2010 at 7:13 pm

      Technically, yes, that minisode happened during season 2, but it was still a couple of days in Sookie time. According to the timeline, that minisode happened the morning of Bill & Sookie’s dinner at the French restaurant. Franklin and Tara first hooked up 2-3 days later.

  12. Jay

    June 28, 2010 at 6:58 pm

    If you can “glamour” someone into letting you in a house, what’s the use of having a rule to have permission to enter?

    • Rubacava

      July 1, 2010 at 5:24 am

      I thought that too. I wish the writers had written his access into the house differently. I feel like the power of that rule has been undermined now. It should be that if entrance is gained under a glamour then it doesn’t count as a proper invitation and does not provide access. Oh well, it’s happened now. The problem is that from now on the writers wont be able to create as much tenson in situations where a vampire wants or needs to get into a house because the audience will just think to themselves “why don’t they glamour their way in?”. However, I’m unsure as to why he wanted to sleep with Tara in the first place (as in, he clearly has an agenda and I can’t see how sex with Tara fit’s into that) so it maybe that once a vampire has sex with a human it changes the ‘entrance’ rules, I dunno.

  13. FeralFae

    June 28, 2010 at 7:25 pm

    My friends and I are talking about Tara and Franklin. Must Tara be violated AGAIN? Can she have her mind to herself for a week?

    • FeralFae

      June 29, 2010 at 3:11 am

      Oh, and ps- I should have mentioned, I am certain the motel sex we saw was consensual, and we don’t know what happened at Gran’s yet. My issue is that she was being mentally violated again, and I think the writers need to chill on the continued victimization.

  14. Lyta

    June 28, 2010 at 8:39 pm

    Yeah what is the point of permission if you can glamour your way in? Or is he just exceptionally good at it? Poor Tara, does she have to be mind raped again? As willow would say, “she needs a good mental tidy”.

    • K. Harris

      June 29, 2010 at 12:08 pm

      The way I took it was he has the power over Tara because of what happened in the motel room, you know how if one has the vampires blood in them the vampire can call out to them. I don’t know just my take

  15. Michelle

    June 28, 2010 at 9:12 pm

    Franklin did not glamour Tara to have sex with him. It was consensual. Franklin only glamoured Tara to get into the house. You could tell by their conversation with the cuddling Tara was willing. I think the next show will make that 100 percent clear.

    • Hookah

      June 28, 2010 at 9:28 pm

      I agree that Franklin did not glamor Tara to have sex with her. She did consent, but I do think he worked some sort of glamor mojo sex thing on her and that is why the sex was so intense for her. Eric can fly, maybe Franklin’s special power is of the sensual kind.

      • elle

        June 28, 2010 at 9:58 pm

        If that’s Franklin’s special power, he needs to come to my front door 😉

      • Mel

        June 29, 2010 at 6:50 am

        Tara asked him if that was his special power, remember? He chuckled and said it was an all-vampire thing, but I have to wonder…

  16. Tiera

    June 29, 2010 at 2:04 am

    my dvr went loopy and kept repeating the head twist over and over until i stopped it. i thought it was weird and i thought “ive never seen this before..” …didn’t know it was such a shocker until i went online after… i’m becoming desensitized when it comes to this stuff. probably because of the past sex scenes…

    Tara’s crazy eye flickers during sex were trippy too.

  17. Cathy Linton

    June 29, 2010 at 3:28 am

    Franklin; and more on “most shocking sex scene”–Bill and Lorena:

    I cringed to see the character of Franklin described as “ugly” in a couple of comments above. Not true! This actor has great presence, a terrific voice, and a strong visceral appeal even if from Allan Ball’s comments Franklin is “evil.” As for the sex scene between Bill and Lorena, I am surprised no one remarked on the inventive neck twist–a true innovation that was visually as interesting as Bill hurtling the candle at her last week and setting her ablaze.

    The conflicts, setbacks and dangers that pepper each episode keeps us watching–and to keep that rolling, many of the characters and situations can’t be vanilla.

    • ahs30

      June 29, 2010 at 7:25 am

      I have to agree with your assessment of Franklin/James Frain. He’s not conventionally handsome, no, and I had my qualms when pictures of him first appeared. But there is something there, something very sexy. I find him absolutely intriguing–I’ve been more intrigued by him this season than I have Eric (don’t hate–I still love Eric!).

      I do have to agree, however, with the writer of the original post that I was not nearly as shocked or offended as others say they were by the “twisted” sex scene. And I am very easily made queasy, but it was just too funny. I found myself laughing and thinking, “Is this it? Is this what they said would be a water cooler moment? Maybe the shocking scene is in another episode, and they just had the spoilers wrong.” Like others who have posted about this on various sites, I saw a bit of “Death Becomes Her” in the whole scene. I was expecting something much, much more shocking. I understand the thought that it’s so out of character for Bill, but we’ve seen his rage and anguish before when Lorena is around, so it didn’t seem so unexpected. In fact, I would have clapped if he had just ripped her head off. I thought the Bill/Lorena blood-soaked sex scene last season was much more haunting and “shocking.”

      • Rainy

        June 29, 2010 at 11:47 am

        Actually, after thinking about it, the sex scene was a huge “water cooler” moment.
        I mean the entire fandom seems to be split on whether the scene was shocking, hilarious, or just plain underwhelming, but we are all still talking about it.

        • K. Harris

          June 29, 2010 at 12:00 pm

          hahahahaha true oh so true

  18. Ida

    June 29, 2010 at 10:28 am

    Cant Wait for the next episode . I like to know who Frankling work for , is he working for russell or is he a secret investigator ? . Russel already seem to have all the info he ned´s .
    Agre that the Bill / Lorena sex scene was disturbing . Arlene part was funny to , finding out that she dident have Terrys child and poor Jessica .. Sookie seem to have gott tooo mutch V too ( LOL ) and Alcide was great to see .

    By the way , anyone else notist the Godric eye blink when Eric said ” Maybe next time you shot me .. ” love that one 🙂 , Goderic was a amazing character and like the best part of season 2 . And i hope Allan Ball will ceep him coming back in different way´s .
    Sooo cant wait for the next episode .

  19. K. Harris

    June 29, 2010 at 11:57 am

    Well in our house we think the dream scene Sam had with Bill was WAY more disturbing than Bill and Lorena’s scene. Not because of the “gay them” but Bill & Sam?!?!?!?! no no no no no

  20. Susan

    June 29, 2010 at 12:08 pm

    It’s easy to forget that Sookie and Bill really haven’t been together that long as far as relationships go (especially as far as relationships preparing to enter marriage go). The series packs a lot of craziness into short periods of time. I think Bill and Sookie are still in the Honeymoon phase of their relationship. Bill and Lorena had their own honeymoon phase (although their relationship was VERY different than his with Sookie). The 1920’s bloody sex scene was still probably part of their honeymoon phase. However now when Bill is disgusted/outraged with Lorena he abuses her (the TV in Dallas, and the twist). Sookie consistently made choices Bill disagreed with and went against his wishes. Bill’s kidnapping mirrors him being missing during the Civil War. Sookie is the polar opposite of Caroline. She won’t sit at home and wait like a good little wife for him. When the honeymoon is over but Sookie is still doing things against Bill’s wishes or challenging him, how will he react?

  21. Majel

    June 29, 2010 at 3:05 pm

    Maybe I’m reading into this, but the thing that had my eyebrows crawling up to my hairline was the “hate” – he’s doing it to hurt her and it so backfires. The bloody sex scene was shocking in it’s mindless viciousness, but this – especially the head 180 – was an entirely new ballgame. The whole “I can’t even stand to be looking at your face while I pound you raw” vibe really gets across how tortured and deeply furious Bill is, and how helpless he feels. Of course, I didn’t hear any of the buzz, so I couldn’t be disappointed. But I guess the bottom line is this scene was shocking in its sheer emotional fury and despair.

  22. Rubacava

    June 29, 2010 at 3:07 pm

    “Franklin Mott and Tara. Now that was sinister. Manipulation that promises to only get more twisted. Rape under the guise of glamoring. Why aren’t we talking about this instead?”

    Are you talking about the sex scene with Franklin and Tara or his gaining entrance to the house? I didn’t see the sex scene as rape under the guise of glamouring. If it was glamouring then Tara would not have remembered it happening.

    • Mel

      June 29, 2010 at 3:15 pm

      I was initially referring to how he gained entrance to the house and the sex that I assume followed. However, it’s possible he glamored her into having sex the first time, but didn’t allow her to forget about it. I don’t think glamoring equals forgetting, unless that’s part of what the vampire builds into the glamor. She was definitely mind-raped, though, when he glamored her at the Stackhouse residence.

  23. Teri

    June 29, 2010 at 4:47 pm

    Tara was perfectly willing during her and Franklin’s sex romp. That wasn’t rape in any form. He didn’t glamour her. She seemed perfectly willing and called it’ mind blowing…so, no rape there. He didn’t glamour her until the end of the ep. Now, who knows what might happen later…but there’s been no rape there yet. And, the Lorena/Bill sex scene wasn’t rape either. She was perfectly willing…head twist and all.

  24. Teri

    June 29, 2010 at 5:01 pm

    Oh yeah…James Frain is SEXY as HELL! Unconventionally handsome? Well, I guess. Beauty is, after all, subjective. All I know is I find him so very very sexy. And, DAMN…is he FUNNY!

    ‘Yo sho got purdy lips, gurlfriend. mmmwah”


    • ahs31

      June 30, 2010 at 9:16 am

      Unconventionally handsome is not necessarily a bad thing. For TB purposes, I would say Alexander Skarsgard is more “conventionally handsome,” but at this point….I would take James Frain (although I wouldn’t turn down AS at all! It’s just a good thing no one knows where I lived, or I would have a mob show up at my door). James Frain has a very sexy, very intriguing demeanor…and that accent only helps! And the black humor/comedic timing of his character–I don’t know that anyone else could pull off a puppet gag with a severed head and make me laugh that hard.

  25. Stevie

    June 29, 2010 at 7:50 pm

    You seem to have completely glossed over this scene without understanding the repercussions it is having for feminists. You have summed this down as a simple scale of the amount of blood or gore. For many that is not the ‘shock factor’ of this scene, but the argument that it potentially further indoctrinates violence against women in sex/sexually dominant women attract violence. There are many complexities in the relationship of these two but these issues…especially in a show that often comments and reflects on the political climate, particularly in relation to gender and sexual binaries..that you cannot ignore. I will be interested to hear Alan Ball’s take on this scene, considering his position as a gay man. There are many things that can debate the issue either way but to be honest i thought fans would be a bit more aware of the context and want to discuss this rather than whose hot or how much blood is considered ‘shocking’.

    • Mel

      June 29, 2010 at 8:42 pm

      Yes, seeing a woman who preferred rough sex, really, really rough sex, would be a shocker to many.

  26. Diana

    June 29, 2010 at 10:28 pm

    It was shocking.. and my friends at work who didn’t know it was coming were very shocked. I just hope it finally killed her.

  27. Nikki

    June 30, 2010 at 2:34 am

    Newbie poster here.
    I was really, really disturbed and creeped-out by the hate-sex scene between Lorena & Bill. Watching it made me squirm and I have to say that no matter how powerful Lorena is, most of it came from Bill. It made me think of women who are in abusive relationships but won’t leave because they still love their abusers. Yes, Lorena has been goading Bill, but it doesn’t excuse any of his behaviour. Just because she pushed him doesn’t make it right. Like another poster said, what if Sookie really pisses him off, now that he’s really lost it?

    Also thinking–isn’t Sookie raping people’s minds?

    • Rubacava

      June 30, 2010 at 4:50 am

      There’s no doubt in my mind that Lorena is consenting to the intercourse. There’s also no doubt in my mind that she is getting more pleasure out of it than Bill. So these two things together convinces me that it can in no way be defined as rape.

      I’m not sure what to make of the phrase ‘mind-rape’ yet. I’ll have to think on that one. But if one accepts that term then as the poster Nikki points out above, it’s interesting to consider to what extent Sookie’s mind reading can be compared to vampire’s glamouring in the context of mind-rape.

      • Donna

        June 30, 2010 at 11:08 am

        You guys are over thinking the rape thing! These are vampires we’re talking about. Vampires abide by a different set of laws. When watching these shows people need to remember that they are not based on reality but instead fantasy. I’m really glad they put this disturbing sex scene in because I got to see how horrified Bill was to discover what his life had become. It was really sad to see but It gives me a better understanding of him. Now I’m dieing to see some Eric & Sookie! I think Eric is delish!!!!!

    • Mel

      June 30, 2010 at 6:45 am

      Provocative question, Nikki. Sookie isn’t forcing people to do things by reading their minds, and often she is the one whose mind is infringed on by others (e.g. she has to keep a barrier up so she’s not assaulted by everyone else’s thoughts). However, she has used her abilities purposely on many occasions, both with invitation and without.

      By no means to I think what Bill did to/with Lorena is “right”. However, the lines of manipulation and power and pleasure and rage are so blurred, I can’t decide who was raping whom, or if rape occurred at all.

  28. Jen

    June 30, 2010 at 8:33 am

    The Bill/Lorena scene was the most emotionally/psychologically disturbing scene for me because of the obvious hate, rage and degradation involved. The Chicago flashback scene was very disturbing as well, but for me there was more emotional distance in that scene, because it was clearly a coldly premeditated act (which doesn’t make it any better morally, necessarily) that Bill and Lorena had planned together. The combination of Bill’s palpable hate for Lorena and himself and the desperation and self-loathing she demonstrated by allowing him twist her neck around while telling him that she still loved him is unbelievably degrading. It was degrading to both of them. I also felt the special effect aspect with the neck twisting was a cheap move and done purely for shock value. The actors would have been able to convey the same emotions without the neck twisting.

  29. Melanie

    June 30, 2010 at 5:21 pm

    For all those that felt that the Lorena & Bill scene overtly and inappropriately depicted violence against and hatred of women should write to HBO. NOW has written a short piece about the scene, and at the bottom of the article a link to write to HBO is provided:

    • Froggy

      June 30, 2010 at 7:01 pm

      I think you might be taking this too seriously.

    • Rubacava

      July 1, 2010 at 1:58 am

      By all means take it as serious as you wish. I just disagree with the analysis in the link you provided.

    • stephanie

      July 8, 2010 at 5:38 am

      this article is just stupid. what the author does not realize is THAT THEY ARE VAMPIRES. Rules of being vampires and their morals or whatever have nothing to do with feminism or the emasculation of men or whatever. ugh

      • Mel

        July 8, 2010 at 7:45 am

        The author (that’s me!) DOES realize that they’re vampires, but that has nothing to do with the question presented: was this the most shocking sex scene on television, as was hyped? I say no.

  30. JenC

    June 30, 2010 at 9:37 pm

    Let’s not forget that Lorena, as Bill’s maker, has the power to command Bill to do whatever she pleases. She commands, “Make love to me.” He says, “Never!” but his body must do her bidding. It’s just like in Season 1, when Sookie rescinds her invitation into her home and Bill is forced to walk backward and leave. As Bill explained to Sookie in the first season, it is magic that animates vampires, and it is the magic that both empowers and limits them at the same time. Was the scene disturbing? Yes, and way over the top. It reveals–pretty consistently with the books–that a vampire is beholden to his maker, no matter how awful they are. If Bill’s maker were a male vampire and the same scene were taking place, the feminist controversy would be taken off of the table as a matter of discussion. We would rightly place the mantle of victim onto Bill.

    • Majel

      July 1, 2010 at 7:00 am

      Well said, JenC. Most people seem to have forgotten the maker/makee relationship. In that case, can’t we say that it was Bill who was “raped”? He was essentially forced to do something he didn’t want to. Can’t disobey the maker, after all. This is one of the reasons I feel Bill got a bum rap in the books. He never really wanted to do what Lorena made him do, and yet this is the basis for the demise of his relationship with Sookie.

      Plus, we continue to judge the vampire scenes from the viewpoint of a human. Vampire culture is generally dark and violent and many things that are abhorrent to humans are just part of life for vampires.

      • Ashley

        July 1, 2010 at 10:26 pm

        He does have control. People see to have forgotten season 2 when he was RELEASED and Lorena doesnt have that power. And even if she did, she would have to say “As your maker, i command you…” Thats the only way the maker can forcibly compel their child to do their bidding, as we saw with Eric and Godric on the roof when Godric forced Eric to leave. Lorena did no such thing, and cant. In their hurry to defend Bill, people seem to forget the releasing thing. No such thing exists in the books, thats a TB invention.

    • Ashley

      July 1, 2010 at 10:20 pm

      No, im sorry, but Lorena doesnt have the power to command him as his maker. They established this in season 2 in epiosdes 7,8, and9. Bill was officially released from his maker, meaning released from her power. She cannot command him. This was explained in those episodes. When Bill says never, never!! hes taking about the fact that he will NEVER love Lorena. he even said, “i will never love you” then proceeded to throw her onto the bed. He took his rage out on her in a sexual way, thats the way he chose to express it. People cant excuse him with the maker stuff. Lorena wasnt even using her superior strength against him, he was in control of the sex scene. TB is different from the books. In the books, theres is no formal “As your maker i release you”. Bill was released, Eric wasnt. If Lorena hadnt released Bill, then yes Lorena could command him, but she would have to say “As your maker i command you” as they demonstrated last season with Eric and Godric. Bill was not a victim. And what about the head twisting? That was all Bill, and the fact that Bill is being described as a ‘victim” even after being so willingly violent is pretty disturbing. Blood was pouring out of Lorenas mouth and she was clearly in pain, but said ‘i still love you”. It was very violent and was not supposed to victimize Bill IMO.

      • Ashley

        July 1, 2010 at 10:22 pm

        I also think Lorena is very manipulative and sick, but using anger against her in such a way was Bill sinking to her level, or even lower.

  31. Jen

    July 1, 2010 at 7:00 am


    Sorry, but you are incorrect. Lorena released Bill in the 1930’s flashback from season 2, which means she no longer has that power over him. She cannot say to Bill, “as your maker, I command you”, as Godric did with Eric. If she did have that power over him, she could have come to Bon Temps and ordered him to kill Sookie in front of her. According to the TB rules of vampire behavior, Lorena is physically stronger than Bill because she is older than he is, so if she had wanted to fight him off in that scene, she could have. Clearly, she wanted whatever she could get out of Bill, even if it was hate sex. In the book, Lorena did not release Bill, but on TB, she very clearly did. Bill had a choice.

    • JenC

      July 7, 2010 at 2:12 pm

      You’re right. I had forgotten about that. I have been re-reading the books, and the whole thread of this story plays out differently there. Lorena never releases him in the books, and Sookie finds out about the power the maker has over the sire a lot later in the series. I have to wonder how this is going to play out in the arc of this season’s storyline. From the book’s perspective, the scene that AB imagined (with the maker/sire power still intact) between Lorena and Bill is completely believable: Bill doing his maker’s bidding, but hating it. Because this “releasing” is not within the mythology of the books, and is unique to the one episode, I have no idea how this will play out.

  32. kayak

    July 1, 2010 at 9:13 pm

    I feel that a lot of comments are from fans of the tv show – if you have read the books then you will know that tara and franklin is a part of the book… It’s actually very important. As well as the fact that Sookie goes to look for Bill. Also part of the books….

    Read the books and then you’ll understand

  33. jaime

    July 1, 2010 at 10:26 pm

    i agree that this was expected…but when she told him that she loved him after he had twisted her head around was probably the most disturbing thing in the whole scene…haveing read all the books i was never a real fan of Bill’s and this scene just kinda confirmed that feeling…due to the fact that they had made it known that lorena had released bill in the flashback in the second season…so he has no excuse except that he was too full of hate to control himself….as far as franklin and tara i was expecting franklin to be older and the sex scene between him and tara was more of a shock to me then lorena and bill..

  34. kesha

    July 2, 2010 at 11:13 pm

    i thought he turn her head so he wouldn’t have to look in her face. i think ppl on here is blowing this rape thing out of proportion she stronger that him she could of threw him off but SHE DIDN’T so i wouldn’t called that rape or i didn’t hear her yell STOP! if the show distrub people so much stop watching it

  35. Ida

    July 5, 2010 at 10:15 am

    I disagre . Lorena did release Bill in the flash back in s 2 , but lorena is still the faster and stronger vampier . I think she forst Bill to drink her blood and maybe got power over him agin ? or maybe she alway´s have had and it was nothing else but a agrement ?( Loren never comanded bill to stay in dallas .. ) As a watched it looked to me that Bill tried to keep Lorena away from him and got all crazy .. after he bit Lorenas neck . I know they havent said anything about it in the show . But i find it hard to belive that a maker could lose ALL power over he´s/her vampier child . The blood between a vampier and he´s/her maker are so alike that a invited vampier´s maker and brother/sister can anter the human´s home ( Well , in the book´s ..) I think that´s whe Pam found Sookies house .. She could sence Eric´s blood in Sookie . Also if that´s true .. Eric could have enter Sookie´s house if he wanted to and were polite LOL and a smart devil XD .

    I also notis a bigger grave behind Bill and and Lorena in the flashback , maybe Lorena klld Bill´´s wife ?

    • Ida

      July 5, 2010 at 10:18 am

      Sorry , maybe Lorena KILLED bill´s wife .

    • Ashley

      July 5, 2010 at 11:13 pm

      The stronger and faster thing would apply if she had actually tried to use her strength against him and force him to have sex with her, which she didnt. He threw her on the bed, then bit her, then ripped off her dress and unzipped his pants. That was all him, she wasnt using her strength. If you watch the scene, Lorena didnt force Bill into anything. Bill bit her, she didnt ask him to or command him, not that she could anyways. He wasnt trying to keep her away. He said i will never love you, never never!!! Thats why he was screaming. Bill was TRYING to hurt her and show her just how much he hated her, but it backfired and Lorena said “i still love you”. Bill was setting out to cause her pain, to use his rage against her. It just didnt work. If she had been using her strength, she could have stopped the head twisting, but didnt even though it was obvious she was in extreme pain, because Bill finally gave it to her, hate sex or not.

      If Lorena had the power to command him
      1) She could have commanded him to stay in Dallas instead of using force to keep him in the room
      2) Russell wouldnt have had to send werewolves after Bill, she could have compelled/called him to her like Bill did to Jessica until he came, or threatened to use Sookie against him if he didnt respond to her call and he would have left willingly, like in the books
      3) in season 2 Bill tells Sookie “she released me long ago. She no longer has any hold over me.” So either she doesnt have the power to command him as Bill told Sookie, or Bill lied to Sookie.

      • Ida

        July 6, 2010 at 3:27 am

        You are SOOO right about the fact that Bill was trying to hurt Lorena . But they are also vampiers . Don´t you think just like in the book´s they can hit you or give you a kiss . Moving too fast for you to see it .. I belive ther is more too this blood bond thing and i can give you nomerus scenes wher you can see that .
        And you are wrong , Lorena did command Bill in that scene . Lisen very very close when Bill bite Lorena .. I think she use her faster speed first and then commanded him .Just like in the teaser when Eric run´s down too he´s bacement screaming to let Pam go . He say it in botte english and swedish at the same time … If you lisen close to Lorena she did command Bill but said it almost too fast for you to hear it .

        That leves me to the fact that it must have been more of a agrement whitch maybe is punishable by vampier law ? . And maybe the blood swaping was sort of a agrement breaker ? . Also i think we forget that Lorena never said she dident have any power over Bill .
        PS : please forgive my spelling :S

        • Ashley

          July 6, 2010 at 9:51 pm

          She didnt command him. I know she said “Make love to me!” but thats not a command. A maker, in order to command the child, has to say “As Your Maker, I command you…”. We’ve seen this many times with Bill commanding Jessica, like when he caught her trying to kill her dad, and with Godric commanding Eric to leave the roof. If they do not use that phrase, they cant force them. But if they say “As your make i command you” they are forced. But Lorena didnt use this, because she cant literally. I believe the Season 2 commentary on the Blu ray, maybe even the regular dvd, addresses these issues. I dont own them, so i cant tell you which, but ive read online. Its completely different from the books, where there is no “releasing”. Thats something theyve changed for TB. They cant force/compel them with out using that specific phrase.

          • Ida

            July 7, 2010 at 12:41 pm

            Yes , the maker cant make / fors hi´s or her child without the ” as your maker i command it .. ” And i can under stand that you dident hear it and most of you dident .. Like i said , she said it ( as your maker i command it ) to fast for you to hear it along with the screaming and moaning when Bill bite her . It did drown in all that .. And i don´t think we can put the fact away that Lorena is stronger and can ” Breake ” Bill´s bones . Like i said , i belive there is more to this blood bond thing and the Eric scene a mentioned .. is a better / clearer scene to hear what i´m talking about . You can also pause the last seckond´s when you see Eric standing alone in he´s bacement after Sookie left and take a look at yvetta .. you will probebly see that she look´s a little too bloody .

            I think that what you think of the scene is what allan ball want´s us to belive , soo we can say you`re right . I know what i hurd probyble will have some effect later on in the show even if it may not be out in the opend . But I would still disigre with you on that part .

            Ps : the video is on this page .

          • Ashley

            July 7, 2010 at 5:53 pm

            Well i havent heard one other person say that she said that besides you, so ill watch it again. But in the Dallas scene in the hotel room, she used her physical strength to keep him in the room. If she could have commanded him, she would have just commanded him to stay in the room, and that would have been that. He couldnt have left. Thats why it doesnt make sense that she still has this power. I also havent seen anybody say that Yvetta was bloody. In fact, she didnt even have bite marks, she was just all sweaty.

          • Ashley

            July 7, 2010 at 7:19 pm

            Ive re-watched the Lorena/Bill sex scene with the volume way,way up, and i didn’t hear any type of command. All i heard was yes, make love to me.
            Do i think its all his fault?? No. Do i think he has to take responsibility for what he did, and that he wasn’t forced?? Yes.

      • Ida

        July 6, 2010 at 4:58 am

        Ps 2 : Also in the latest video ” true blood vampier rules ” No one of tha cast and crew say that a maker can lose it´s power over he´s or her vampier child or mention that there is a ” release ” .

        And in the Lorena / Bill flashback in season 2 , Bill never ask Lorena to release him .. But to let him go and Lorena have never said that she dident have any power over him anymore . It have to be some kind of agrement between them that she repected untill this point ?

        • Ashley

          July 6, 2010 at 9:53 pm

          In the flashback bill asked her to let him go, and she said “AS your maker, I release you.” This is the formal release, just as saying “As your maker, I command you” is the formal command. I know they didnt address this in the vampire mythology, but they address it on the season 2 dvd/Blu ray.

          • Ida

            July 7, 2010 at 1:10 pm

            Yes , she did and i don´t know what to make of that … Do a maker have to obey a command he or she command to them self to obey ? .

  36. Deanna

    July 7, 2010 at 4:11 pm

    Although Lorena no longer has the power to command Bill, since she released him, the impression I got during their sex scene was that she was the one in total control of the situation. Bill, of course, was totally *out* of control. Everyone already knew he totally hated her (pretty evident since he had recently tried to set her on fire), and he had just given up everything he loved, and it was all because of Lorena. She goaded him into his behavior, and I think she was enjoying every minute of it, not for any physical pleasure, but because Bill had finally broken down. It didn’t look like the head twisting hurt her in the least… her face looked a bit weird, but she seemed to be smiling during the whole thing, because Bill having sex with her (any kind of sex) was exactly what she wanted. I’m sure Bill knew the head twisting wasn’t going to kill her or even hurt her, AND Lorena has told us herself… she is MUCH stronger than Bill physically. If she didn’t like what he was doing, she could have put a stop to it at any moment. But she didn’t, because he was doing exactly what she wanted.

    So… I don’t consider it rape at all. Lorena had all the control and could have done anything she wanted with Bill at any time. And technically it wasn’t even “violent” as far as vampires are concerned. It’s unlikely that any injury was inflicted at all and Lorena seemed to be having a great time. And you have to remember it’s two *vampires*….. who are already dead. Now, if a human had been involved, the scene would have brought horrifying to a whole new level. But as it was, it just showed Bill’s total desolation and anguish (and yes, hatred for Lorena, but we already knew that) and Lorena’s twisted need for control over Bill. She relinquished her control as his maker, so now she has to do it another way.

    • Ashley

      July 7, 2010 at 5:50 pm

      No, i dont think it was rape either. I was saying above that Lorena cant compel or command him in any way, and although she’s stronger, she didnt use that against him.

    • JenC

      July 10, 2010 at 10:52 am

      I agree with your assessment of the scene. I think that you’ve hit the nail on the head, so to speak.

  37. Michael

    July 14, 2010 at 9:37 am

    I think the article summarizing this episode, and the final sex scene, glosses over an important point. It wasn’t the hate-sex or the violence, the neck cranking or the primal screams that made the scene so memorable. For me, it was Bill’s de-volution, culminating with the degradation of Lorena, and by extension, women. Bill has finally lost his humanity, and he demonstrates it by treating Lorena like an object, much like a dispassionate sexual predator might treat an unsuspecting woman he picks up in a bar.

    By twisting Lorena’s head around – while in the missionary position – Bill is degrading Lorena in the worst way. Knowing full well that he’s incapable of physically harming her, he is trying to harm her emotionally. “You’re so low and worthless,” he’s saying, “that I won’t even look you in the eyes while we do it missionary style.” He’s putting the proverbial bag over Lorena’s head. This is, of course, a tremendous departure for his character, as Bill has been portrayed universally as a gentleman and a romantic. He’s even treated Lorena politely and with a modicum of respect in the past, despite his immeasurable hatred for her. Now he has completely lost all shreds of his humanity, and is embracing the true nature of what he is.

    This, to me, is why Lorena seems to enjoy what is happening. We know vampires can feel pain (despite the lack of a lasting injury), so the experience of having one’s head twisted around cannot be pleasant. But she enjoys it because she knows that Bill has finally let go, stomaching the degradation in exchange for Bill’s having finally embraced vampirism.

  38. Katie

    July 20, 2010 at 4:31 pm

    That scene was awsome. Poor Bill, when she demanded him to make love to her, he had no choice. She is his maker. But he hated every minute of it. His rage, was overwhelming and his frustration of not being with Sookie. You could feel the power in this scene We talked about this all day after work.